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rzpl60
USA
5 Posts |
 Posted - 01/29/2006 : 14:45:00
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A Water System Saleman has told me I need an RO system due to my water having such a high count of sodium. (water test reults below) This has increased my price from a $2K system to a $6K system. I want to know if this is accurate and if I have other options. I mainly want clean water for washing cleaning purposes.
My neighbor also has a well 50ft from my well and has been using a basic water softner for 10 years with out any problems.
I have a three year old house, with a well built at the same time. It is a 2600 sq/ft 2 1/2 bath house with two people presently living in it. The saleman told me to get the water checked at Texas State University. So I did and the results are below:
Calcium 108.2
Magnesium 97.2
Sodium 204.0
Manganese 20.02
Iron .01
Nitrate 1.5
Sulfate 1558
Chloride 600
Fluoride 1.3
TDS 1832mg/L
TOT.AKLKA.AS CaCO3 201mg/L
Total Hardness AS CaCO3 670mg/L
Any information would be greatly appreciated! |
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Hidropur
Honduras
799 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 16:55:13
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You sure about that Manganeese (Mn) level? It seems out of this world. It needs to be addressed before either a softener or an RO.
Yes, you do have a very high sodium level, but it's borderline. Test (or ask him if he has a water analisys for his well water) your neghbor's water for hardness and sodium and if his readings are similar to yours then go for it. You will need an in-line pellet chlorinator, a 120 Gal. retention tank, a 14" backwashable sediment filter (this part is mostly to deal with the Mn); and the softener (ask for chlorine resintant resin and seals on the softener).
This water should not be drinked unless it's filtered by an RO Point of Use filter (should cost between $250-$600 depending on features).
David |
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rzpl60
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2006 : 18:00:15
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| Misprint on Manganese it is sactually was .020 |
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Hidropur
Honduras
799 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 07:04:00
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Then you don't really need the oxydation/filtration. You can't drink this water without disinfection though.
You will have hardness leakage in the order of 1-2 grains even at 15# NaCl Salt Dossage. A 14" diameter softener with 3 cubes of resin (fine mesh) should be fine for your conditions. What's your pH?
David |
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rzpl60
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 09:00:14
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| Not sure of my exact PH level, however I did have another person giving me a quote tell me the PH level was looked good. |
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spencer6497
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2006 : 17:24:46
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| I hope someone is not trying to sell you a Springhouse filter system. I got sold one for 3,500.00 and it has never worked as promised. You might want to get the sales people to put in writting just what their system is going to do. You might want to wait until the water is tested before paying them. I wish I had. I would not have a 3,500.00 Springhouse piece of junk. Hope you get it figured out. There are several good guys here who can and will help. |
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Andy CWS-I
81 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2006 : 06:50:12
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David,
Don't you think a 14" softener is rather big for a total hardness of around 40gpg? With an average household, I would think a smaller, more efficient system would suffice.
With four people, the daily "average" is going to fluxuate quite a bit. Some days will require large amounts of water and others maybe zero. Can hardness leakage, and pre-regeneration hard water purge, be held to a minimum?
If you did set up a 14" tank, what kind of valve settings would you use and how would you set your reserve capacity to minimize salt use and maximize soft water production.
rzpl60,
Have you had a microorganism test done? A point of use (POU) RO would greatly reduce sodium for drinking but I am not sure how that quote went up $4000 for an RO ! Was the sales rep speaking of a whole-house RO and is so, any details you can share with us?
Andy
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rzpl60
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2006 : 07:35:00
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| The saleman was referring to an entire house RO system. He said I needed to look at an entire house RO system due the sodium level being so high, that a reg. water softner system uses salt to clean the water, and it would not work since you are adding salt to salt. |
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Hidropur
Honduras
799 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2006 : 08:14:19
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rzpl60,
It really doesn't work this way:
quote:
it would not work since you are adding salt to salt.
But you will have a higher than normal Hardness Leakage for that same TDS level. Sorry for my previous mistake on the leakage estimate, it should read 4-6 grains.
Andy,
rpzl60 needs a larger than normal softener due to 1) The high sodium content in the water. It will not allow full utilization of the resin bed during the service cycle. 2) An SFR of 11gpm which would require at least 2 cu.ft. under normal conditions but due to the co-regeneration factor a larger unit is required to keep leakage at bay.
You might be appalled at the $200.00 additional expense for a 14" softener for a 2½ bath home but compared to $3,500.00 a Whole House RO would cost him, it's a drop in the bucket. Unless you want to convince him of 20 grain leakage? His situation does not allow him regeneration efficiencies as you mention. This is not a normal operating condition for a softener due to the sodium. Our mission here is to avoid him an added expense of $2,800.00.
David |
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Gary Slusser
USA
221 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2006 : 18:19:03
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quote:
Originally posted by rzpl60
The saleman was referring to an entire house RO system. He said I needed to look at an entire house RO system due the sodium level being so high, that a reg. water softner system uses salt to clean the water, and it would not work since you are adding salt to salt.
I'm concerned about the effects of the TDS on the softener but it should be fine. And I'm concerned about the sodium and sulfates for drinking and cooking water but a booster pump type RO will do the job. I'd think about a 200 gpd TFC with the 80-100 psi booster pump. My price for that with a 40+ gallon tank is less than $1100 delivered.
I agree with David on the size of the softener and the reason for that size. I suggest using a Clack WS-1 control valve with by-pass valve.
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Edited by - Gary Slusser on 01/31/2006 18:21:50 |
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Hidropur
Honduras
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2006 : 06:42:04
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Gary,
rpz did mention this water was not for drinking. Now your RO is very affordable and we still haven't touched the issue of corrosion. How much corrosion should be expected on copper pipes with product water TDS, elevated sodium and chloride levels. pH is unknown.
David |
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Gary Slusser
USA
221 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2006 : 16:49:48
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David, you guys using mental telepathy? I can't find where he mentions anything about drinking/cooking water. LOL
If it were my water, I'd use it after the RO. I certainly wouldn't be buying bottled water after spending all this money!
I don't know how much corrosion due to the chlorides etc.. I've seen water like this a few times and the copper had lasted 20+ years. But he has little choice other than re-plumbing the house and I wouldn't do that if it were me. As long as the pressure keeps the velocity to less than 6-8 ft/sec and he doesn't have a hot water recirc system, he should be good for many years IMO. If it were me I'd treat the water as mentioned and see what happens.
Gary
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Hidropur
Honduras
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2006 : 03:26:13
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quote:
I mainly want clean water for washing cleaning purposes.
Here's the drinking water statement.
Now back to corrosion: High TDS water with high speed causes abrasion, not corrosion. It still deteriorates pipes, but what about galvanic corrosion?
David
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Gary Slusser
USA
221 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 16:40:00
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Ok, but I don't describe "mainly" as a 100%. lol
Sorry, I've only seen velocity created problems referred to as erosion corrosion, not abrasion corrosion. But... come to think of it, I have been called abrasive, I rub certain folks the wrong way. For this water, it's not a slurry, just 'thicker' than most, lol I think erosion corrosion works better. 
Galvanic corrosion could be a problem. He shouldn't have any galvanized in the plumbing IMO, and if there is any, he should remove it. He should check for all dissimilar metals and limit them with dielectric unions.
Now that's the 'official' position, and now what I'd do if it were mine... I wouldn't worry about it very much simply because IMO there's not much that is affordable that can be done about it.
Gary
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Hidropur
Honduras
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 09:08:47
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You abrasive Gary, noooo. You seem like warm fuzzy fellow. Just kidding. I don't mind honest, direct answers to questions.
You're right about the "mainly". Sorry, my mistake. Maybe rzp should settle this doubt. RZP? Are you gonna drink and cook with this water on a daily basis?
IMO: The terms abrasion or errosion are more indicative of the "mechanical" properties of this water to "scrape" the insides of these pipes. Galvanic corrosion is "chemical" process. You're right in that the industry uses the term "errosion corrosion", they add the word corrotion so nobody is lost as to where this abrasion or errotion will lead to.
David |
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rzpl60
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 07:46:22
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| No we will not be cooking or eating with the water, only using it for cleaning, and washing. |
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Topic |
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Options for well water with high sodium
